| This is a very
difficult subject. The difficulty arises in part from tradition, and folks
not wanting to part from tradition, as well as the definition of omnipresence.
In all honesty, most christians hold to
a definition that is not literal of the word, and therefore their belief
should not truly be defined as omni-presence.
Let's define it. From Dictionary.com:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=omnipresent
om·ni·pres·ent
( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere
simultaneously.
This means God would be everywhere. And
part of everywhere, is everything. Space itself is made up of matter. You
would have oxygen, hydrogen, and so on. Hence for God to be everywhere,
He would have to be in the objects that are located everywhere, unless
He resided outside of all things by surrounding them. Like oil and water.
Oil and water do not mix, therefore if you spilled oil in water the water
would surround the oil and be present all around it but not in it. Ever
see a Lava Lamp? I don't know what's in a Lava Lamp, if its oil or something
else, but the "lava" does not mix with the water.
But even this analogy is not omni-present,
because some objects are quite deep, and how would God's presence in any
way affect or be a part of the inner parts? Unless one believes that He
resides on a sub molecular level and resides outside of each atom, thus
invading structures without being a part of them. But consider, does size
matter? Is God more in something if He surrounds a tree compared to surrounding
the DNA of the tree? In both cases He is not in something, whether it's
the tree or the DNA or atom. Therefore even this analogy fails to show
God is everywhere.
One must realize that the place "everywhere"
must deal with objects. And thus we can conclude, with the scriptures shown
in this page that this is not true.
Some may say omni-presence means all things
are in God's presence, like in His view or like a stage for Him. This is
untrue as well. Doesn't the Bible teach us sin cannot stand in God's presence?
Even the Father was absent when Jesus was on the cross because the sin
of the world was on Him.
Math 27:
45: Now from the sixth hour there was
darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46: And about the ninth hour Jesus
cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to
say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Deut 32:
19: And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred
them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20: And he said, I will hide my face
from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward
generation, children in whom is no faith.
Ps 5:
4: For thou art not a God that hath
pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5: The foolish shall not stand in thy
sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6: Thou shalt destroy them that speak
leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Some would claim this attribute is in the
Holy Spirit. He wasn't even poured out until Jesus ascended. So you cannot
claim this attribute (omni-presence) is a continuous one (eternal), if
He wasn't available until after that time. We also know Jesus never became
available to the whole world until after He ascended either. This leaves
only the Father being available.
Some would claim the universe resides within
the Father's being, that would not be right. Because the Father sits on
a throne. How could He sit on it, if it resides in Him. It would be kind
of strange, walking up to the Father, sitting on the throne, peering into
His depths and seeing another image of Him, sitting on another throne.
Sort of like the movie "The 13th Floor". Where folks made a computerized
world, with real people inside it. And inside the computerized world, some
computerized people made a computerized world therein also. C.S Lewis spoke
of such a thing in his last book in the Narnia series. As they all entered
into the garden with the Tree, they saw a door, inside the door was another
Narnia, and inside that Narnia was another garden with another door to
another Narnia. And Aslan kept saying, "Further in, further in!".
This reminds me also of a cult that a friend of mine fell into, where he
believed Jesus was a christ, not The Christ. He believed there were many
christs, he also believed the Bible was like an onion, and it had layered
truth, and none of the outer truths had any true substance.
I love C.S. Lewis' work, but I don't buy
into any theory that God the Father is some insubstantial being with everything
inside Him. In Him is only goodness, and no death, therefore this universe
has no part with the Father only those things which have been redeemed.
There will come a time when all things
will be in God, but that time is not yet.
1 Cor 15:
28: And when all things shall be subdued
unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put
all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Col 1:
19: For it pleased the Father that
in him should all fulness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through
the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by
him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Eph 1:
10: That in the dispensation of the
fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
This future redemption is NOT just our
bodies, but those verses spoke of ALL things.
What many christians are ignorant of is
that Adam was given the physical creation to take care of, but when he
sinned, he gave it to satan. Now satan is the god of this world. Jesus
is working to take it back:
Rev 11:15: And the seventh angel sounded;
and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world
are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign
for ever and ever.
So the redemption of man coincides with
the redemption of creation, why else does all creation groan?
Rom:8:22: For we know that the whole
creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
It is my belief, that these events will
not happen simultaneously however, for the wicked will be thrown into the
Lake of Fire at a different time when all the elements of the universe
will be consumed by fire and God makes a new creation, but these 2 things
are both a future work. If you believe that all people are redeemed already,
if you believe God has regenerated the sun so that it will never die out,
then you believe in things that are unscriptural. There are some cults
that do believe Jesus has already returned a 2nd time, I even had a catholic
priest believe this. But this is not scriptural.
If its a future work, how can it be a present
reality?
If God does not yet have unbelievers in
Him, how is He present in their flesh? Isn't flesh part of everywhere?
Omni-presnt means present everywhere, isn't flesh part of everywhere?
If the earth needs to be redeemed, then
if you were to dig a hole in the earth 3 miles deep, is God there? If He
is there, then why does the earth need to be redeemed? If the sun is slowly
dying, is God in it? If He is, why does it need to be redeemed?
I do not believe God is all powerful either.
There are many things He cannot do. God can't lie. God can't do evil. God
can't break His word. Many other things He can't do.
Some would say that the universe must be
destroyed because of man's sin. So God has to burn the entire universe;
animals, suns, stars, planets, because humans sin?
I don't buy it, and that is not what scripture
says. It tells me that all the universe has fallen into decay and sin and
is absent from God's presence, therefore it must be redeemed.
Let's deal with some verses that folks
use to try and prove God's omni-presence.
Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven,
thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
If the psalmist (probably David) dug the
hole himself, he would be bringing God with him. Because God was with the
psalmist. But if you sent a machine to do it, and to test for God's presence.
I have no reason to believe He would be found. Although you cannot test
for His presence, but theoretically speaking...Or you don't even have to
do any of that. Just abstractly thru science and reason ask yourself if
God is 3 miles deep in the dirt. I think not.
Col:1:17: And he is before all things,
and by him all things consist.
Lets look at a more literal translation:
Literal Translation of the Holy Bible
17 And He is before all things, and
all things have subsisted in Him.
The important word I think is the word
"before". All things were made through Jesus, it is through Him,
that they even came to exist. But once it existed, God set up laws to continue
their existence, such as the law of "After its Kind". This verse speaks
of origin. Not God's presence in it or around it.
I want to say I do not believe in gnosticism,
but believe that omni-presence in this age would probably be an offshoot
of it, and thus why I disagree with omni-presence.
Adam had a choice in the garden, well actually
3 choices:
1. eat from the Tree of Life
2. eat from the Tree of Knowledge
3. Do neither
If he did # 1, he would have gained eternal
life.
If he did # 2, we have what we have today,
described in detail below.
If he did #3, he would have continued
to exist in the same condition he existed in then. A world without sin,
but a world without eternal life. His body would never had sickness, but
would be subject to damage, via accidents, and the like, although such
accidents would be minimized because God was in the garden and there was
no sin.
But he chose #2. When he did, all creation
fell in sin, and came into satan's authority. He is called the god of this
world and in Revelation it will be futuristically declared that the kingdoms
will now be the Lord's.
I see no reason to believe the universe
was created in God. I see no scriptural support. I believe it was created
in a neutral state for Adam to choose which way to bring it. If he had
eaten at the Tree of Life, then the universe in his subjection would have
been in the subjection of God. God had given Adam full authority over the
entire PHYSICAL universe. When he fell, it went to satan.
Here is an example of where and why God
was not present to the world in the Old Testament:
II Kings 5:15 says, “And he returned
to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him:
and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth,
but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.”
Here is a NT verse to consider:
2 Cor 6:14: Be ye not unequally yoked
together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with
unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
I wish to submit a new idea to back up
my position via a scriptural pattern.
We know Jesus only did those things which
He had seen the Father do, right?
We know Jesus taught that a corn of wheat
to bear much fruit has to die. And therefore Jesus had to die, so that
the Comforter could come to all the believers.
Therefore God the Father did this same
principle. In creating the universe, He let it out of His hands, so that
it could return back to Him, but Adam chose another path.
This is also called the Isaac principle
when God asked Abraham to kill Isaac, the gift he so waited for, which
God had given him.
I submit to you that since Jesus seen the
Father do this principle, it was done with Adam and the universe.
If you love something
let it go free. If it doesn't come back, you never had it. If it comes
back, love it forever.
The attributes of infinity are another
thing that has occurred by tradition. I believe God exists in infinity
in time, but I see no reason (by scripture) that He is infinite in space
(outward-tho He may be infinite inward).
Some would say God watches the evil and
the wicked. But does this watching have to be with His own eyes?
Math 8:9: For I am a man under authority,
having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and
to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth
it.
Gen 18:
2: And he lift up his eyes and looked,
and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them
from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
16: And the men rose up from thence,
and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the
way.
17: And the LORD said, Shall I hide
from Abraham that thing which I do;
20: And the LORD said, Because the
cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21: I will go down now, and see whether
they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto
me; and if not, I will know.
22: And the men turned their faces
from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
This story tells us that God knew of the
wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah because of the cries (prayers?). Then
God wanted to confirm it by sending angels to report it. We see all through
scriptures angels watching, reporting, writing down what they see. Why
would God have books? Books of our deeds? God will use such testimony in
the judgment. Therefore, God's eyes, are also the eyes of the saints praying
as well as angels reporting.
Links of interest:
Links
to Evidences & Scientific Arguments
The
Truth about Jesus and God
Why
do we need God or Jesus?
Interpreting
Scripture
The
Protected & Inspired Word of God
An
Answer to Universalism
Eternal
Judgment: of the Believer
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